From Returns to Redesigns, How George Dargham turned returned office furniture into a growth engine for Miami's workplaces

What happens when curiosity meets execution? George Dargham, founder of Office Furniture 4 Sale, shares how a logistics insight sparked a thriving business. Hear how he scaled from local ads to global sourcing, mastered rapid installs, and embraced “resimercial” design to meet the modern workplace.

Office Furniture 4 Sale website

Thanks for joining us on CRE Cafecito, the CCIM Miami Podcast where deals, insights, and Miami flavor come together.

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You can find Ruben the Cuban on LinkedIn.

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet George and Alana
• 2:46 From Office Depot to Entrepreneurship
• 4:51 Building a Reverse Logistics Business
• 6:55 Pivot to Local Sales During Recession
• 10:20 Importing Direct and Leveling Up Quality
• 13:42 Full-Service Design, Renderings, and Delivery
• 17:00 Client Story: Urgent University Install
• 19:40 What Really Motivates the Founder
• 22:45 Tariffs, Sourcing, and China vs. The World
• 27:50 Post-COVID Supply Shocks and Pricing
• 30:45 Office Trends: Resimercial and Talent Wars

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:40

Welcome to another episode of CRE Cafecito, the CCIM Miami District Podcast. Today we're excited to have George Dargam, owner and founder of Office Furniture for Sale, along with Alana de Alzaga with us, and they're going to tell us a little bit about the stories. And thank you for sponsoring today's podcast. Appreciate all your support you have for the CCIM Miami District and uh the community at large. So with that, welcome to the show. Thank you, Ruben. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here with you. Well, thank you, George, and thank you, Alana. George, you know, let's get kind of to the beginning. I always like to start with uh having people get to know a little bit about you, a little background, like you know, tell us what was George, you know, early days, high school. Let's go back.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25

High school. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26

Wow. So I was born and raised here in Miami. I went to private schools throughout Miami. I went to Columbus High School, graduated from Columbus in 1993, and from Columbus went to Miami Dade, and then went to FIU, and then graduated and got into the working class.

SPEAKER_02: 1:48

Nice, nice. So you graduated and got in to get started working. Yeah. And then and then, you know, how did we go from graduation to this empire of furniture?

SPEAKER_01: 1:57

Empire.

SPEAKER_03: 1:58

That's nice to thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01: 2:01

Well, you know, my first job, my first corporate job out of college was with Office Depot's corporate headquarters. And that was based out of Delray Beach at the time. And that was in 1999. And got a job as a logistics director for them and managing different efficiencies within their warehouses, operation, you know, solving operational bottlenecks that they had throughout all their distribution centers. And it was great. I stayed there. I was working for them for about six years, moved around a little bit with inside the company. And then I got the itch. You know, I grew up in a very entrepreneurial family. And so, you know, observing my dad, my mom, and building the business that they had, and what what what really supported my sisters and I throughout our childhood. You know, my dad was a huge role model for me. And so one of my last projects with Office Depot was what to do about customer returned merchandise. They had they had a major issue with regards to competing against Amazon. Amazon, as you guys know, accepts any and all returns. Right. So Office Depot needed to compete in that arena. So, but they didn't really have a great reverse logistics strategy. So, yes, they were receiving all the returns, but they were either throwing them away, they were donating them, they had a few guys that would buy here and there, but nothing consistent, nothing professional. So I don't know. I was I was in my office, and I, you know, I recall just thinking to myself and thinking this is not what I want to do for the rest of my life. I I I was younger, I was 29 and I was able to risk. I wasn't married, I didn't have children. You know, I know that I can live on bread and water if I have to. So and I had a little nest egg saved up. So nothing. I decided to leave. And then but I left in a positive way. I came and came back to them and I negotiated a contract with them where we would buy all their customer return merchandise. No questions asked.

SPEAKER_00: 4:21

So you saw the opportunity.

SPEAKER_01: 4:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 4:23

You created also like your little Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 4:26

And so we nothing. The the agreement started off South Florida and then it branched out into floor all of Florida, then Southeast United States, and then all the entire eastern coast of the United States. So that's how we started the company. And that was we were receiving desks and chairs and copy paper, everything. And I never thought I would open up to the public. My idea was just to transfer, you know, sell container loads of that assorted goods to the Caribbean, to South America, Central America, to, as a wholesaler, to resellers down there. And that it started off in that way and it was going well. And and then I had an employee of my father's company one time told me, she goes, George, why don't you put that furniture in the, you know, why don't you put an ad in El Clarín? And I'm like, and Clarín. I don't know if you guys have heard or heard of that paper. It's like a little local thing that you get you pick up in the supermarkets, right? And so whatever. I I put an ad in and I started getting people locally calling me and saying that they that they want they wanted inexpensive furniture. And so our business started off really, that's where it really started taking shape. And and it was a part of the it was like 07-08 era where where the recession hit, hard, the housing crisis hit, and so a lot of people lost their jobs. And so what happens is when a lot of people lose their jobs and there's no other job to take, they start whatever company they can start, right? For themselves. And and so that was our market. It was the startup companies who were, you know, couldn't afford new, who couldn't afford you or didn't know how to access used or didn't want to buy used. Right. And so we were the solution for that problem. We were giving open box office furniture, desks that had a minor imperfection, a chair that had a minor imperfection, and at 30 to 50 to 70 percent below the Office Depot retail price. Wow. And then we were offering the service of delivering and assembling the whole thing. And so that's how the business really started taking shape. But since you know, that was from 05 to you know the 08, 9 era. And then, but today we're a very different business today. But you know, it was one time I think uh a new CEO came in to Office Depot and said, Hey, why are we giving this guy in Miami all our copy paper and all our chairs? We can just be selling them uh 50% off in our stores and trying to they were trying to get traffic back into their retail stores. Everybody's just buying them online on Amazon, and so that that that's the the trend that everything has been going. So that CEO had had some ideas that they wanted to employ, so they took away the chairs from us, they took away copy paper from us. So I thought to myself, okay, well, you know what? I'm just gonna go to China. So I went to China back in 2018 and found the same chairs, found the same quality or better quality, actually, and started importing it ourselves. Wow. And so we're actually getting it cheaper than we were getting it through the outlet channel, believe it or not. And so it was just an eye-opener. And it was funny that a lot of people would tell me, a lot of our vendors would tell us, hey, don't go to China. It's gonna be, it's too hard. They're gonna they're gonna mess you up, they're not gonna, you know, it's gonna be. I don't want to say the word screw you up. Yeah, but whatever. I mean, apologies. But uh yeah, they're gonna screw you over and you know, you gotta watch your back.

SPEAKER_03: 8:26

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01: 8:27

And so I thought, yeah, you know what, if you could do it, I can do it. And so I just decided to go, and and it wasn't the way that they described it. And so, yeah, we started importing our own lines of furniture, of desks, of chairs, of everything. So fast forward to today, we are a commercial grade office furniture full service dealer. Meaning we import our own lines, we sell our own commercial grade quality desks versus like office depot would have, let's say, home office furniture, and which doesn't stand the test of time in a true commercial setting. So we've upgraded our lines, we've upgraded our seating, but we're also dealers of US-made office furniture products as well. So we're dealers of Han, we're dealers for AIS, which are these well-known manufacturers in the country.

SPEAKER_02: 9:21

So that's a great story. Sorry, I should think I don't know if I went too long. No, no, no, it's perfect. Officefurnitureforsale.com. Is that like the name from the beginning?

SPEAKER_01: 9:31

Yeah, yeah, that is the name. That has been the name from the beginning. It's it's it's it's uh it's a double-edged sword, right? Because you know, the company originally was a value retail operation, right? Right. So the name Office Furniture for Sale was was catchy because it it it would it appealed to the people that were trying to save money. Right. Right. And so we are still very competitive price-wise, and however, the qual our quality has increased a lot. It's not that we're more expensive or anything, it's just that we're we're offering a different quality of furniture and a different experience today. Right. Where people or companies are gonna call us to design their space, you know, from beginning to end. So we have design specialists that work for us, and that when a client calls us, they either they're moving their offices, they're opening up a new office, they're renovating, they'll call us, and they're you know, we're happy now that we can be able to send experts to sit down with them, understand their business from the beginning to end, right? Understand what this individual needs, what that department requires, and also what's their time frame, what's their budget, what's their what's their expectation. And so from that initial conversation, our design team creates a design that they can visualize, they can see it's a 3D rendering, 2D plan views.

SPEAKER_00: 11:10

Being able to to visualize and create things, it's easier when you are full-time doing it. But it's not many times you you just pop into a space and you see it like this is full furniture, this will go here and there. And and I think that's where we go, like that's that's what where we have fun. I think that creating is creating it's always a process of fun, and it's always nice to to visualize and make upgrades to an actual space. You will say, here it goes, maybe that's not the right way. And always from the point of understanding the needs of our clients and customers. What also uh George has always this four quick questions you have to ask, and it's what's your budget, what's your time frame?

SPEAKER_01: 11:55

Your time frame, your your design preferences, this the aesthetic preference, the aesthetic preference, then and your functional needs.

SPEAKER_00: 12:02

And your functional needs, and and right from there, that's where all the process begins. And it it goes really smooth and and it it it works out pretty well.

SPEAKER_02: 12:12

Is there any particular memory of a a client you're like, he came in or she, you know, they came in and say, Hey, I need something like yesterday, and you were able to help them out. Or is there one particular story that kind of I know you probably have hundreds of stories.

SPEAKER_01: 12:27

Yeah. Look yeah, the other day, Nova Southeastern University, which is a client of ours, they called us that they're they need to they need to quickly furnish a space enabled to in order to get a certain grant that they were applying for. And we had the inventory in stock. We were able to get it done. We are obviously prioritized their need because it was an urgent request. And so we were able to get it done within seven days, you know, five, seven days. But you know, uh somebody asked me the other day what what it is that that I love about what I do. And you know, I wouldn't say I love selling desks and selling chairs, right? It's I don't think that's what impassions me. And I didn't understand this until I started the company. And so I, you know, at first it was all dollars and cents for us, right? For me. I I looked at, yeah, I was able to get something at a very low price and sell it at a substantial margin. And yeah, that made sense. And that's how I was going to create my my life, you know. But what I started understanding or started realizing was that these people that would come in, they're all entrepreneurs that are all in the beginning, very more in the beginning than now, right? More now it's a lot more larger corporations and and mid-sized companies that you know, you're a little distanced away from the actual entrepreneur, the founder, or whoever that was that created the company. But initially, when I was really dealing with the small business operator, it was it was it was fascinating to hear all the ideas that they had, all the the innovative approaches that they were they were bringing to market. One one guy, one guy stands out in my mind, and it was fascinating. I mean, I I I was impressed. He didn't even buy, he ended up not buying for me. He but I didn't care. I don't care. He came in. He came in, he sat with me, and I, you know, I started talking to him. Hey, what do you do? And he starts sharing with me what his what his business is, and he says, Well, you know, we're replacing plastic. And I'm like, replacing plastic. Okay, go what do you mean? He says, Well, you know the gel caps for, you know, aspirin or not aspirin, sorry, for like medicine, you know, the material used for the gel cap to create the gel cap. So he's able to re-engineer that material to be able to create plastic bags, plastic bottles, plastic anything. And they're fully dissolvable.

SPEAKER_02: 15:09

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01: 15:10

Because as you know, when you take a pill, right? A gel, is it gel cap? Is it or I'm thinking of the one that you open the capsule. That that capsule, yeah. So, you know, obviously it dissolves in your in your in your body, right? So, and he's uh I go, no way, I I couldn't believe it. And he says, Oh, I'll show you. And he goes out to his car, comes back in, he brings like a like a little grocery paint nylon bag.

SPEAKER_02: 15:38

And no, Cubans would call that in the best way in Cuba, una javita.

SPEAKER_01: 15:43

Exactly. Exactly. He brought me he brought me a javita, and he goes, Hey, can I can I have a cup of water? And I go, Yeah, sure. And I give him a cup of water, and he puts the javita inside the cup of water, and he stirs it, and sure enough, it disappears. Oh, wow. It dissolves the whole bag. And I had touched the bag before, and I I was like, Wow, this is a real bag. This is David Cup of the bag. You couldn't tell the difference, you couldn't tell the difference between a typical plastic bag and this particular bag. Wow. And so I thought, oh my god, this guy's gonna, this guy's gonna be a billionaire. Yeah. Right. But he didn't want to spend, you know, 200 bucks on a desk. But whatever. It didn't matter. I don't care. And I I I kept his information and I kept in touch with him over the years. And I told him, dude, if you ever need an investor, I would invest whatever you whatever you need. Wow. I want to be in. And and I don't know, you know what? It's funny. You know, people have an amazing idea, amazing know-how, but they just sometimes they it they don't know how to take it off the ground. Yeah, you know? That's it. And you can have a million ideas, but if you don't know how to implement it and how to make it make it a profitable venture, I don't know. You know, it's a sad it's sad because it would have really, I think, helped the environment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 17:05

But uh well, speaking of the know-how, a lot of that comes with experience going back to your 29-year-old self when you said, Hey, you know, I'm gonna launch and and and do this kind of thing. And then you moved on, you switched it, I'm gonna go straight to China and and start, you know, yeah. So things obviously change, things are shifting. We have one of our CCIM lunches coming up, is about tariffs. And then you're actually probably in the middle of all of that. You mind shedding some light? Uh what do you think of what's going on?

SPEAKER_01: 17:33

Before Trump, right, okay, we were uh zero percent tariffs and life was beautiful. Right. Right. People were saving money, we were making good profits, it was it was great. When when the initial Trump tariffs took place and it implemented a 20% tariff on our 20 or 25? 20, I think it was 20, yeah. 20% tariffs on all China imported goods. Look, I mean, China is the the factory of the world, you know. Absolutely. It's not easily replaceable. It's not like you can and you know, his logic was, well, just go and make your stuff somewhere else. So initially I was okay with it. You know, I I was I was pro the tariffs. I was pro I I said, okay, well, whatever, we have to suck it up, we have to do what's right for the country. And I was uh I was a proponent of it. And it's fine. So we started we did start going and seeking other manufacturers in different parts of the world. I mean, we looked at Brazil, we looked at Malaysia, we looked at Vietnam, we looked at Lithuania, so we ended up starting to import case goods like desks and storage and cabinets and whatnot from Lithuania and great products, great quality, but when in comparison to the to the landed costs, in comparison to China and to Lithuania, Lithuania at the time had zero percent tariffs. So it was about a wash. It was about a wash between between the post-tariff cost, not the pre-tariff cost, right, and the Lithuania cost. And so we we but we I decided because I thought, okay, this is not gonna stop here. Let's let's put let's put some seeds and some roots into other factories and around the world. And so we started really investing a lot more into Lithuania and bringing that merchandise in. The actually the room that we're sitting in right now is from that same factory.

SPEAKER_02: 19:41

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01: 19:42

Yeah. This is so we you know, this is a silent room that comes in different sizes. This happens to be a four-person one, but they come larger and smaller and phone booth size and whatnot. Right. But yeah, so Lithuania became a very good strategic partner for us. And then, but you know, the only one product that we really have a significant challenge in finding another factory is is office chairs, office seating. It's very hard. All the components, taking them to different countries and whatnot, it raises the price to a point where it really doesn't make sense for the consumer. So even with the 20% tariff, and even now today, with the new additional tariffs that raise it up to 55%. Right? So we're paying 55% on all imported goods from China. Wow. But believe it or not, it's still competitive. Wow. Even after the 55%. And we've I've we have not changed our pricing. Really? Yeah. I've really absorbed a lot of it. Absorbed a lot of the cost. And uh you know, during the the COVID era, we had there was major shipping costs fluctuations, if you can recall. Oh, absolutely. Remember container container prices were through the roof, 25,000. Pre-COVID, I was paying$2,500 a container. Yeah. Post-COVID or during COVID, I was paying, God, I think it got up to even$20,000 for a container. Yeah. And you can't stop, right? If you stop, you you might as well just close your door. Right. So you have to keep going, keep going. And so we had risen our costs, our prices in in to to handle those increased shipping costs. And then shipping costs did go down. We did reduce our prices slightly, but not drastically. And then and then when these new tariffs came in, I looked at the margins. I said, listen, these are we're still able to have a healthy enough margin to support our company and our employees and our salaries and whatnot. So I just decided to keep them the way it is. And just absorb it, and it is what it is, you know. Are we constantly looking for new sources? Yes, but honestly, it's very hard to find. I mean, Vietnam, for example, they offer office chairs. There's several office chair factories, but their minimum order quantities are are huge. And they're not the factories are not up to par yet.

SPEAKER_02: 22:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:14

To produce, for example, if I put a container order, I just put a container order in two days ago with two of my factories in China, and they're gonna you know produce it in 30 days. That same order in Vietnam will take probably double that. So it'll take 60 days for them to produce it, and then another, whatever, 30 or 40 days to ship it over. It's a much harder process to manage when you get out of the efficiency of what China is.

SPEAKER_02: 22:41

Right, right. Well, I I know time's a little short. I only a couple more questions. Uh, one's more local on the sense of, you know, you've been in the business now, and Alana and I know you're the guys on the front line with the office market, the commercial office market kind of going through its thing. People working a little more from home, so you know, trying to get back there. We've seen in the last couple of years, at least for me, you know, you know, everything from the standing desk to all sorts of different types of chair. What what kind of trend, or is there any particular trend that you're seeing that here in in South Florida or different parts of the country, in particular with office furniture, has been changing, or this is where we're going with these more open spaces with sound booth or I don't know. Yeah. No, no, you're you're hitting it right.

SPEAKER_01: 23:27

You're hitting it right.

SPEAKER_00: 23:28

Like Nordic, Nordic kind of style?

SPEAKER_01: 23:30

Yeah, like so organizations are becoming more flat, right? So, you know, you you you don't have the traditional hierarchical type of organizational model that you had back in the 80s and the 70s and 90s. So as as companies become more flat and from an organizational standpoint, they they want a more collaborative type work environment. You have the new generation that's coming out of college right now that's expecting more from where they work. You know, when I got out of college, I was happy to sit in a cubicle and get paid and listen to my boss and say yes, sir, and yes, ma'am, and do whatever they say. Now the the generation is is more thoughtful. They they're more they're they want to be more involved. They want to, you know, they want to blend their work with their life or their personal life. And so all that translates to a different type of furniture model. You know, you want to you want an environment that's they call it resimercial, right? Residential, commercial blend. So you want to have a that's what you know, for example, we work. You go into a we work and it's very, I mean, I don't even know if we work is still around. I guess whatever those places are right now, right? Those co-working spaces. Co-working space, yeah. You go into these spaces and and it you feel at home. You're sitting on these gorgeous leather sofas, you have coffee, you have sodas, you have whatever you have sushi on the side, you have whatever you want, and you have a cool vibe. Yeah, you have a great atmosphere, you have a lot of people around and people, like-minded people. So I think companies are changing the designs, changing the way they think and how they set up their offices to attract that talent. You design your space for a few different reasons. You design your space for, yeah, you have clients coming over and you want to make your space look professional and polished. Uh you have investors who come, they they want to see, hey, where's our money going to, you know? Are you sitting in a used cubicle somewhere or whatever? Or you make the space look too modern. But the m but one of the big biggest reasons to update your space is really to attract talent. Because that's what it's gonna take to get people to, you know, why do are they gonna work, you know, they a lot of these kids or young professionals have many options. So they can either work for themselves, you know, in this creator type of economy, they can work for themselves, they can work for, you know, Google, Apple, whoever, you know, one of these guys, or they can or they can work for you. So how are you going to attract them? How are you going to differentiate your space to make it more attractive for somebody that's coming out right out of college that has has their has it very clear in their mind what kind of environment they want to work in. And so, yeah, the spaces are becoming open, collaborative. We did shy away from that during COVID, and I had a lot of my clients calling me saying, hey, put separations up, put you know, barriers up. And you know, and then yeah, the state the work from home, I was terrified. I was terrified. That was in my thought, in my mind, in 2020. I thought that was the end of my business. Wow. I mean, I sent people home. I I didn't know if they were coming back, I didn't know what the future of office was going to be. And but you know, I honestly I I give a ton of credit to Governor Ron DeSantis for opening up the state and making it open for business. Yep. You know, saying, hey, Florida is open for business. And we have had a ton of New Yorkers come, we had a ton of Californians come, we had a ton of people from around the country come. And for me, that was that was we boomed. And so, yeah. Well we we we we give a lot of credit to to the governor and to the to the yeah, yeah, in a more lighter way of seeing it, you're old, I'm more young, so you know I'm easy with that word. Easy with the driver's license. Let's confirm the difference here.

SPEAKER_00: 27:54

No, it's true, but what what it is true, I'm millennial. I'm a millennial.

SPEAKER_01: 28:00

Are you okay?

SPEAKER_00: 28:01

Yes, I am. I'd like the right on the borderline.

SPEAKER_02: 28:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 28:04

And what you're looking when you go to work in an office. Yeah, or you you put it in the in the office and you want like, I'm tired of being in the stess, so they want to get their laptop and go to an open space, but not in a in a benching. And they want to go into a nice, comfy lounge chair, or they want just to get like a little booth and be like a part of everyone. Some it I think the workspaces now are like going with the flow and also with the moody's because we're humans and you're not in the same mood every day. So when when you come to the office, if you're able to provide spaces that get into those moods, that that works for you. And I think that at the end of the day, it reflects on the efficiency of the work that you're getting from your workforce.

SPEAKER_02: 28:55

Just to wrap up, thank you very much. As closing words, what words, what would you say to a young George or to those out there listening that they're early in their careers, they're coming into commercial real estate, or you know, they're they're just getting an a it's difficult, it's challenging, it's very competitive, whether you're in brokerage or on the lending side and office space. I'm sure you're finding a lot of competition. What words would you say to a young George?

SPEAKER_01: 29:18

Well, the young George is my son, right? I have I have a son and I I talk to him all the time. And what I what I tell him is is and and and you know, it's very hypocritical for me to say it because I I didn't take this, I didn't think like this as a younger George. But don't worry about the money, right? Money comes, money comes, money will come. I tell my son all the time, I go, find what you love, do what you love. When you do what you love, you'll do it well. And when you do something well, people will find you. And eventually people will end up paying you for whatever it is that you do well in life. Right. But the most important thing is to find something that impassions you, that moves you, that that gives you purpose every day. You know, I think I think we we get lost in in the economy of life. You know, we we we're trying to keep up with the Joneses. We want the next, we want the latest car, we want the latest iPhone, we want the latest vacation. You know, we're looking at Instagram, we see all these people traveling the world, and you're like, how do they do this? Right? And and you know, we we're trying, we're trying to keep up, and it's just unhealthy at the end of the day, I think. I think it's unhealthy. To live like that, and I think you just have to find something that you love and do it right and do it well, and just be be an expert at whatever it is that you love.

SPEAKER_02: 30:49

Very well said. Thank you very, very much. I'll make sure to include your website and your contact info uh in the show notes and uh George and Alana with Office Furniture for Sale or what's the acronym again? Uh OFRS. Or we'll see what the future holds. But you know, you guys have been very, very gracious. Thank you for letting us use your space. Thank you for sponsoring uh with CCIM Miami District and this podcast. And we look forward to uh future events and hopefully uh a lot of people getting a lot more office furniture from you guys and in you know helping out this commercial real estate community that we have.

SPEAKER_03: 31:24

Nice. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 31:26

Yeah, I mean the the the CRE community has been really a huge help for us ever since we started networking with with not only CCIM but with NAOP. We it's really opened up a lot of doors for us and we're really grateful to the CRE, to the CREs that we work with, the brokers that we work with, who have trusted us with their tenants, with their clients. It's we don't take it lightly. If we're referred by a CRE, if a client is referred by our CRE, it's a top priority in the company. It's a top priority. We want to make sure that those CREs look good and uh and and that's our that's our that's our main focus, making sure that they're happy. So yeah, thank you. Well, thank you guys very much.